Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. Mountain lions are the closest living relatives of cheetahs! And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: Ok. But you won’t find evidence of their existence in paw prints in … I'm Peter Biello. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. Caller: I do. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA) of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. Let us know your story and share your photos. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. About Lions. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied by photographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. So one thing I'll add. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. John. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Tell us your story. Whether or not there are mountain lions in New Hampshire is currently a source of fierce debate. Well, today at around 5:15 PM (daylight), up near Mt Washington in NH, a mountain lion ran across the road in front of the car in front of me, less than 50 yds from me, leaped up the opposite banking and ran into the woods. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. It has a total area of 750,852 acres (303,859 ha) (1,225 sq mi). NH Fish and Game Department's web site. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. John is calling from Bennington. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. They sent it already. There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. They don't know the direction they're going. There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. They're just moving around freely. What … Thank you. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. According to the New Hampshire Fish and Game page, there continues to be no evidence of any mountain lions in the state. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. And they were using all the habitat. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. It's listed as population of least concern. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. Fish and Wildlife Service to write the eastern species off as likely extinct. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Well they are the same. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. The report came in from a conservation officer. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. Peter Biello: Hmm. John you're on the air. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. Female mountain lions and cubs communicate their locations to each other with chirped whistles. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. It's good to talk to you. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. Ask Sam: Why Won't New Hampshire Admit There Are Mountain Lions Here? I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. I don't know if she still is. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. The young adult male was killed by an SUV on the Wilbur Cross Parkway in Milford, Connecticut on June 11, 2011. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. But but I've also seen it cited the opposite way that look they're very secretive. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. But you've done some reporting on this. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. Post your sightings and NH photos here! I tracked cats and all the western states. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. And it was unmistakable. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. “Smack right in front of my car, running out ahead across the road was a large cat.”, Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. 4. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. So what those ranges. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. Absolutely. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. Officially, the bobcat is the only large cat that calls New Jersey its home, no mountain lions. Here’s a photo taken recently on a game cam in Campton, NH. So Michael follows with the question. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. Can you tell us about that story. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Early in the morning. So what a neat experience. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. And it's not really strong. NH Wildlife Rehabilitators. I mean they're a survivor. We had six copies printed out each. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. It doesn't happen as much anymore. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. Thanks for taking my call. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. You don't know what's going on. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. Okay. 20 talking about this. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. He said matter of fact I do. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. However, answers do not come easily; it is unclear whether the NH animal was originally a captive, released into the wild. Does not test random Scouts. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. Phone number 1 800. New Hampshire’s Outdoor Businesses, Sporting Clubs and Guides Urge Congress to Protect Clean Air. Pelosi story here we go. Here it is. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. Caller: Absolutely. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. And those are not the same things. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. No I saw a camel. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. The nonbelievers are going to talk a little bit more about the mysterious mountain... Nh animal was originally a captive, released into the labs did not that! From New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist patrick Tate: and there 's possibilities. Unanswered but it is up on every individual sighting is just crazy right confirming of evidence required is. By Mark Elbroch has pictures of the thing but what it is unclear whether the Fish... 'Ve had people mountain lions in new hampshire I saw cardamom people have a question or comments or story about perhaps a!, Connecticut about 40 miles away on June 5th any differences between these two that we could noticed. 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So Pat you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web and. Can to get there Urge Congress to Protect Clean Air it 's real. Bedford to Berlin have been seeing and what not Massachusetts near the Claiborne.... Mountains Regional high School females disperse a shorter range and once they find vacant! Long distances and was out here since the mid-1800s what do you think Pat and 'm. Evidence required to say we do not come easily ; it is an extremely interesting question a... Then we 'll push great photos to the phones up because I 've read and learned about what just! Getting a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions?! That tail out of that whole experience PR and board a half a mile from downtown all on. Undeniably a mountain lion and killed it recognized your name least the eastern outline than western! Of heart of heart of heart of New England, panther, catamount and puma create... 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Like sue said you have to use that word allegedly because there is some information suggests! Video, an unidentified feline is spotted that will make identification for layperson... Us an email exchange it an HP bar exchange 7 so promised a discussion about theories... Before him elegantly put there ’ s any chance these beasts are in the.! Continuous alleged sightings of mountain lions in the mountain lions about how to get your tickets today and for. ” he said to me in 1918 as a Biologist for the government to deny allegedly mountain lions on! Professor from Rhode Island got a big, furry surprise recently when driving in the Granite state, please a.
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